Can Partners in LIFE, Make Good Partners in BUSINESS? | Tracy Harmoush

was actually so good honestly and I love that I guess it's therapeutic yeah exactly and it's self-reflective as well you know sometimes you don't ask yourself these questions so being asked makes you think about it hi guys hi Trace this is awkward because they're very good friends of mine so we're kind of trying to be informative here for everybody else so I'm gonna ask questions I sometimes know the answer but I kind of want you guys to be as candid and straightforward as possible the idea behind this whole thing and as you know I've been wanting to do this for a while as I started this show what they don't tell us because there's a lot of things people don't tell us right they don't tell us back in school they don't tell us while they're in the business when they're successful we see them from the outside but we don't really know how they got there and it would be really useful to a lot of people and myself to kind of understand from different people who have reached certain Heights to give insight into how they got there in the first place what strategies they used what they did wrong what they did right right so that could be so useful to my audience and I would love for you guys to be as straightforward and candid as possible okay so I mean there's no need for an introduction for both Lucha and Karen but um they're both very successful within their own right lucha in his old business and currently now how he works with Karen and Karen I mean obviously one of the biggest names in social media has a huge Global footprint as well not just in the region so there's a lot to learn from both of you and your business partners so it's so important to kind of see how you brought all of this to life I want to start by asking when luch stepped in when did he kind of first started as a support when social media was vague to everybody and he was doing his thing and you just started on social how did he step in when and in what capacity did you kind of step in to help with social to start with you went from his perspective or my perspective both of you like how did you start starting I think from my perspective yeah even before social media I used to like help out because before she used to always used to like taking uh pictures uh like I don't know if it's called a hobby or something she really liked to do so we used to travel a lot when we're long distancing yeah and she used to live in London so we used to go to London and from London it used to be like a hub of our destinations so we used to travel to like Rome Paris Barcelona and we used to always go walk around with a tripod so imagine before even like social media and all that we used to like set up a tripod with like a proper camera yeah there were no iPhones at the time it was like there were iPhones but was that like a clear camera so we used to set up a tripod and then take pictures on timer of me and her and and she used to come back and make books as a as a memory so I think my support started before even social media just me having the patience yeah to do that because trust me we're like one of the few people on the streets of like let's say Barcelona having a tripod and in the middle of a crowd taking pictures so and that's cool because I mean I feel with a lot of people their partner that's not really into it would just be like come on I don't want to take another photo even when they're tourists and traveling so to kind of have that support that uh when when loot stepped in but when did it become for you when did you start feeling like it was a business care and it wasn't anymore just fun putting social putting photos on social media for fun and was it automatically something that Luke said you know what let me help you with this or kind of like you do your own thing I'm just gonna continue to do my my work um I have to say the first time I kind of felt it was getting a little bit serious was I would say even before I had a first a first request with a financial reward coming out of it so I started taking this seriously when I started to feel that my audience was growing that I was getting people who didn't know me personally to be interested in you know my my photos or my life and asking more questions about where I was or what I was wearing or you know at the time this was kind of more of my focus it was really just to show a little bit of my life and when I started to feel that my audience was growing I started to feel that there is interest I felt okay this is something serious but that was all before a brand ever got in touch and when a brand did get in touch I mean personally I didn't even know that this was something a business even across the world not just in our region you know I didn't know how something like that would work like why would someone pay you for photos I didn't get it but when a brand reached out I remember being super excited at the time I mean we already had three children and Dubai is an expensive city and I kind of always felt with all the pressure financially at least was on Loot and I wanted to really help out and and also it kind of made me feel that what I was doing wasn't a waste of time if you want so something is coming back not just a satisfaction yeah and not just the personal satisfaction to me but actually something that I'm bringing into the family as well so at that point I remember being super excited I knew how excited and happy new should be for me so obviously he's the first person I called up and I told him I just got like a really cool email and they actually want to pay me for something that I love to do which is I think a blessing because it's not everyone who finds so much pleasure in what you do so um he was super supportive to be honest from the beginning and I think one thing I want to add which is not just Lucha support in terms of the patients that he had but unfortunately we live in a in a society and almost maybe a little a culture where there is certain expectations from a man and that does not fall under a man's expectations to kind of pose with his wife or stop whatever he's doing to you know take a photo photo because like like he said it's not everybody who loves it and I would say I don't think he loved it he was doing it because it made me happy so I think that was also something that is worth pointing out which is him having to kind of stand up against his friends or society and be like yeah I'm cool with that you know and it's not everyone who does that I kind of wanted to touch on that too so obviously we're in the Arab world so a lot of what you're talking about is not standard um a standard practice of partnership right so you were one of the first to kind of take that on to say you know what I will stand behind my wife and support her when she wants to do these things I will be in front of the camera and behind the camera kind of helping how did you move from dealing with that criticism or bat or Society backlash or the wrath from society to kind of say I don't understand how does Karen uh take the take on this role and how is loot taking on a support role if that's what they want to call it because they don't really know what role you're taking on right I I know what you do behind the scenes for the eyewear brand and for the KE Partners they're your new Venture together um but what how have you overcome the society's back it wasn't like backlash from society it was more um a backlash from from friends and it was like it wasn't like the backlash it was more backlash of like banter you know how guys are we're in a group or what's up so they'd post a picture which I was with Karen and they make fun of me a bit Yeah and haha everyone would laugh and make fun you know but look who's laughing now but like sooner or later you know like when you start growing you see there's actually like a purpose and then quietly quietly you know those people who used to make fun of you start saying you know like Bravo look what they've accomplished actually from like something so simple and which we thought was silly at the beginning but now look what look where they are and and trust me no one is like making fun anymore of course you know what I mean so that's like kind of the the opposite of of of of where we started where we started any any picture I'd put they'd make fun and sometimes I make fun of myself don't get me wrong I do like a good joke once in a while but and then slowly you'd see as you start growing and you start getting more let's say validation and and success and then all of a sudden it's like okay there's really no point making fun because if we make fun we look stupid exactly you know so they say they say that uh Revenge the best revenge that we're saying Revenge I know it's all banter at the beginning but the best version of Revenge is Success so even though you heard the banter and there was year after year of Uconn second guessing maybe you worked quietly and then look where you guys are now right but to be honest it's I think it affected me more than him I used to get bothered because obviously you know I and I think maybe he would think the same but if someone kind of well I'm I'm better off with someone bothering me because I feel I can handle it but I wouldn't want anyone to bother him because I would not know how he will handle it and if it will affect him or not or maybe it does but he doesn't want to tell me that it is so I remember it bothering me more than him you know he would tell me maybe it's fine there were just guys laughing and I would be like but why are they laughing like what's funny you know or you still were like we're childhood friends you know so he would see it more from them trust me we've done worse than make fun of each other on on pictures and stuff like that so I took it lightly you know okay so what what worked and what didn't work so I'm pretty sure that as they say all entrepreneurs need to figure it out and then on your own you're kind of notice what kind of worked and what didn't when did you realize that something was working what was it a kind of strategy that you used and you stuck with it and what have you tried that maybe you thought you know what this this doesn't work right um not not only in business ventures to start but as a strategy in general I'll tell you one thing um Lucha and I were in a long distance relationship for three years and for people who know or have been through long distance relationships they're not easy but but the way to overcome it or the way to kind of have a successful long-distance relationship is to have common goals to have the same vision and that for me is something that I see very much in common with the way we see our lives today and our businesses so I think what really sucks the what makes us succeed together is that we do have the same goals and then how each one goes about to get it we might sometimes not agree on it we might have different ways of dealing with it but we definitely have the same kind of values and the same ambition not maybe not ambition but the same goal you know he might have that like I said like he might think okay to get there this is this is how we need to do it and I'd be like no to get there I need to do this and then we kind of you know sometimes I try my way it fails sometimes his way fails and then you know sometimes we convince each other before we even try but I would definitely say having the same end goal is something that's absolutely been very very uh so on on that you said he has a kind of vision to say to get there this is what I think works yeah and you have another Vision what are those Visions like what are those steps that you kind of feel give me an example yeah like for instance you have um the eyewear brand let's say and when you first started the eyewear brand the eyewear brand what role did you play in creating this brand and what was your role and how did you kind of feel like it was the right strategy to develop it and what was your version of it maybe it's the same one no I just want to say before we jump into the eyewear when it comes to kind of different Visions you have to know a little bit of context of our characters so I have never worked in a corporate world so I don't actually know or have any foundation that teaches me strategy or teaches me organizational you know like steps or a standard way of doing things I'm very emotionally connected to my work whereas Lucha is a lot more kind of objective about the way he sees things and I'm more I would say a bit creative and he's more driven in a more um more maybe more steps oriented so for him things are very simple for him it's like one plus one equals two for me it doesn't work that way so I get to learn a lot from him he learns I would like to think that he also learns a little bit from from the way I do things but um we are very very different in our thought process extremely different and a lot of times I failed because I I I have to say that the fact that I did not have a foundation was tricky I had to build a foundation that works for me for example I don't know how to work within a certain time frame I am the kind of person I'm not organized I don't it's a struggle for me to be organized loot is extremely organized I don't know if this is a um maybe because of how long you've worked in a corporation or it's even part of his character I don't know how he was before because I met him he was already working so I know him exactly like that so for him his steps are very easy for me it's like I get excited okay this is what I want to do I feel this is the right thing to do loot I'm thinking of doing yourselves we calm down don't do anything thinking about it always and I'm like but but I know it and I and I come to him with passion like a loot I feel it this is exactly what we need to do and then you know sometimes he just lets me or sometimes I just do it you know without even and he tells me like I told you exactly but sometimes it works as well I don't think there's a one way of doing things you know and I think this is what's beautiful that it's especially in the world we see today a lot of the jobs that are that existed they didn't exist before and people didn't take risks and did things differently these jobs probably wouldn't have been there as well so I think it's important to try something that I admire a lot and what you both do is you've had you've used social media to your advantage to become owners of different businesses or or investors what I admire in in your prospective Karen is that you had the social media to start and then you're like okay how am I going to create a business out of Social and you're kind of steering away at least in my eyes from social media influencer more becoming a businesswoman yeah and then you still do your Social Media stuff something that you did which I think is probably even more difficult than what Karen did is you had this corporate structure that you're very comfortable with you're very senior in your position as an investment banker and then you figured out how to use your skills there and create a business that works for you not just maybe open an eyewear brand that's irrelevant to what you do but everything that you do behind the scenes is thanks to your old job everything that you're doing in ke Partners now it speaks luge pretty much so that is not an easy decision to make how did you guys kind of figure out that this is going to be the the step I'm going to take when was it a comfortable step or what role did you play in creating I think I think well I've been 18 years in the corporate world when you know you don't learn anything new so it's been like the past five six years I've been doing the same thing over and over again every day same routine uh I used to be like let's say stock broker every day the same stocks nothing new coming around so it just felt lethargic and everything was happening like Groundhog Day so I thought you know what I really I don't want to wake up uh uh I don't want to wake up 20 years down the line and have and have regret you know there's a saying let me see if I can remember it but there's a saying it says there's a high price of winning but the cost of regret is generational you know so I believe in that I believe that I don't want to wake up 20 years online say you know what why didn't I take that risk so don't forget don't think it was just a risk whereby I'm like I'm leaving no it was a calculated risk you know like I know I have three kids um I do need to plan ahead so like me wanting to leave was like maybe a three-year path down the line you know I tried to reduce my cost as much as possible not have a hanging overhead cost like uh mortgages car loans so I tried to close as much as I can knowing that when I leave my monthly cost would not be so exaggerated we've started the company uh the eyewear brand we wanted something which really represented Karen and Karen you know she has her eyes Karen has eyes because she has her big eyes with people which really how it came because for my insecurity of her eyes were like what can we create which kind of is a part of Karen which was her eyewear so we started the eyewear and it wasn't I didn't start the eye when I left my job is we started the eyewear and then maybe a year and a half two years after that's when I really took the decision to to leave my job so it was kind of like I was working kind of like twice yeah you know so I finished I'd got my job I'd finished my job and then when at night I would probably look after the eyewear I had some help of course but I mean what I would say is that don't think that things happen without planning and that I want to take this risk and just leave without a really backup plan and everything takes time I mean if you want to leave your job today plan you need at least two years to plan ahead of time so you don't leave and then you're like wow what did I do this was the biggest regret of my life so I think that's the most important thing is to plan ahead a Time reduce your cost so you don't feel there's a big financial burden every every month coming in so have your salary as much as you can say from that salary reduce your cost so that your income uh you don't feel like you're getting drained every month and then on the back end work on trying to grow something and everything is going to take time you know you hear everyone oh in one year he grew his company and now it's worth a 35 million dollars trust me those are very very very rare and also we know that a lot of that stuff is not even true right we read stuff that are written about you guys and you're like okay this is not true right so you kind of know that it's not necessarily true that's my net worth according to Google is uh something like 70 million I heard that I saw that with you actually we laughed about it it's true I mean it's not not everything you read and this is another reason why I wanted to touch on what you just said that the eyewear brand for as an example I mean do you necessarily think would people would probably think okay oh yeah I'm sure Cairns I wear brown blew up the first two months how long did it really take for your eyewear brand to kind of really see profit as opposed to breaking even as opposed to kind of learning we're still we're still like listen we may we make profit but everything we profit we make we reinvest it yeah you know into the company so especially in the eyewear brand you have you have good margins and accessories you have good margins so you have like a healthy balance sheet but whatever you do you have to always keep on reinvesting reinvesting reinvesting and opening new markets so like now we have a good stronghold in in the GCC area and and the Mina including uh Egypt but our real Target is to grow in in the U

S to grow in Europe to grow in let's say Asia further down the line and all that needs investment because you're like one in a million people who have let's say a company who sells eyeglasses who sells eyewear and in the US how are you going to stand out you need to hire let's say stylists you need to get in with the right people you need to be in showrooms and all that it costs money you know you need to grow you need to hire staff you need to differentiate yourself so marketing costs marketing cost so we were profitable and no thanks to Karen's platform we we were profitable but all the profits you make you always have to reinvest in your company which isn't bad because you're making profit you're reinvesting it you're growing your company the worth of your company is growing as well but Karen how much do you think um do you do you believe that because of your platform so to speak Everything You Touch turns to Gold because you have seven million plus then you're privileged you have an edge now granted you work to get your seven million but now you have seven but no I wouldn't say that that's the case at all I think seven by the way 7

6 no she has 13 million across across other platforms because other platforms make a difference like Ted Talk is very influential I don't know a lot of Brands blow up on Tick Tock now you have a Snapchat which in the Mina region and specifically the GCC UAE Saudi Kuwait Qatar they use it a lot so you can't just negate the other social media platforms and just talk about Instagram but I would say that I don't agree with that at all I wish that was the case I think it's um a combination of elements so first of all yes it's important to have the reach okay and I have that thankfully but then someone can try the product once not like it never order from you again again and not just that tell other people not to order from them again so you're not only talking about one person and we know today with social media news travels really really fast so if someone had a bad experience they can post about it and not you know and that will spread much faster so um it's not it is not as simple as oh so because she has followers she has a successful business absolutely not there's a lot of work followers will get you a one-time transaction awareness no I'll give you a one-time transaction and not even 100 not 100 of course there's like conversion but like you'll get a one-time buyer If the product isn't good then one way repeat customer you your whole business is based on repeat customers and growing the repeat customers growing exposure Etc so if you don't have a good product yeah no one was going to come back and how many times have you ever gone up to someone one of your friends and say by the way I had an amazing experience in XYZ it's usually people are prone to always talk about the negative before the positive like by the way yesterday I had a horrible experience at one two three four or so people resonate more with the with the negative it's more let's say it echoes louder than the positive so you always have to make sure that your product is good your experience is good your customer service is good just to make sure that everyone and I will tell you trace you know what you can compare this to and we've had these conversations before so I have a number of followers on my on my Instagram sometimes I tag people and they call me back and tell me Karen what the hell you just posted us and I just posted me or a brand and it just blew up and it grew and then other people I would see that it didn't really you know make it any sort of difference on them so it also depends on the other you know on the person on these it's not just about raising the awareness that's not enough I can raise awareness on your profile if people come in and are not interested with what they see then they're not going to follow then they're not going to buy whereas if you post someone or something that people come in to be like okay that's interesting they have done their job in you know making their profiles or their businesses stand out it will resonate you know what I mean so I think it has to do with the product and the business and the platform as well as much I mean more I would even say than just the awareness I mean her job is to create awareness but then it's up to the brand to have a good product and I would say sorry just another thing is that even when it comes to my social media some people might think maybe including you I don't know if you've ever even spoken about this or not Karen has seven million followers but don't think for one second of the day that I think that I have these seven million followers at all it's a number on Instagram everything has to do with how you engage with them what you give them um they can for you can have seven million followers that are still following you but have forgotten about you completely they will not engage with you they will not even you will not even cross their mind during the day so that is a super important thing to keep your audience interested in you to keep giving them as well what they want to pick out what is it that my audience likes what is it that they engage with more Let me give them more of that this is what they like and then you know it's not always a simple thing I struggle with this a lot I sometimes see a fluctuation in my engagement which I'm not gonna lie and tell you I it doesn't affect me because it does and it makes me feel very insecure I sometimes feel am I irrelevant am I uh was I doing things better what was my engagement better before and then even if people say yeah but you know this is how it is across I don't care I don't want to be I don't want to be a part of this across there are exceptions I want to be the exception what is it that I am doing that I could do better you know so it is constantly work in itself just to maintain an interested audience before you even start wanting to divert them to other businesses what you're doing and what you do pretty well Karen is you listen to your audience you're not using your platform just to talk which a lot of people do they they want to hear their voice on their platform which you do well and you just pointed it out that you kind of want to see what it what do they want to see what are they interested in and a lot of your growth is because you listen you really listen to what they want and then you work accordingly you Rebrand it and re-strategize yourself in many different aspects right you started off as an influencer then you were just a mom you know the mom influencer then you came to you went to fashion and then you went to business and you know it's pretty interesting and and something that I think is a big takeaway With You Luke is that like anything in the world if you want to do something right you need to understand what you're doing and you need to understand the business and you took the time even with everything on your plate to kind of learn about social media learn about the different platforms learn about fashion even for God's sake because you know that this is part of your business so you're very well-rounded we come we sit and talk sometimes and you know much more than I do in many regards he subscribes to like new fashion news that I'm not even that I don't even know so he would come and tell me information about brands that have acquired each other or whatever it is that or even articles I've seen reading articles on Tick Tock and and I think it's it's amazing because I maybe don't have the time to do it or have less interest in that whereas I would find I would spend more time doing research on okay what are the new trends what can I do there what can I you know and whereas he would see more of the business side of things and then he gives me a lot of information that is very beneficial to me as well to our business but also to me as Karen on social media so it's a just talk about the rebranding where you said I think the rebranding also to be successful in this business you got to be genuine so you said that Karen you know influencer and then a mom influencer and then a business I think it's just normal trajectory of her life so I don't think it was like a rebranding like exercise more to say I think it was more like when when Instagram really happened was maybe or or when she started growing was around the period when she got pregnant all right so she got pregnant and then obviously this is her her daily life is going to be regarding the pregnancy and then she gave birth and then we got we got pregnant really quickly after so for like let's say two and a half three years we were in that whole uh kids pregnancy mode Etc once when you gave birth and we had like let's say we settled in with a bit with our kids our kids grew up a bit Karen I think even when she was a kid she always loved fashion so I think she reverted back to Fashion as like her journey her natural journey in in life not more of a I need to Rebrand myself and I think that's where you're successful when you don't have to put so much effort in terms of your trajectory where you like this thing she follows it and she feels like she does it from the heart not like it's a it's a fake exercise because I want to Rebrand myself so other people can see me for someone I'm not you know yeah yeah you're not uh trying to put on boots that don't fit you're kind of like okay but this is who I really am going to show more of I think the entrepreneurship part is where kind of I have the influence on her and I help her on so and it's not just influence in terms of uh it's emotionally I needed to believe because Unfortunately they make you think that influencers are stupid that they don't have anything to offer they put you in this category that all you do is take photos and then you can't you don't add value beyond that and then I had someone like him who to me is a very smart person and who is who hangs out with a lot of people from the corporate world you know as part of what he used to do and he would come back to me and tell me Karen you are a lot smarter than all of these people that I go and have lunch with every single day don't think for a second that they can do something that you can't so I had this really strong support morale support from him which made me build confidence in myself to think that you know what actually I can like they're not no one's better than me I used to be afraid of titles like Forbes and titles like entrepreneur and like I can't sit with these people I can't have an interview with them I don't know the technical terms I I don't fit in because they make you believe that you don't fit in and you're a girl so you'll be surprised how deceiving titles are on the corporate world like I'm not surprised I don't know what I don't know what like senior manager you know you go you speak and you're like and how'd this guy get there I know I know that all too well uh with the fact that I also used to be in corporate and maybe back in that back in that time and in my age back then I had a lot of respect for titles when I left and I realized what entrepreneur entrepreneurship looks like and then I went back to that and I met certain people from chairmans and CEOs from my old life I'd sit with them and I'm just sitting across the king oh I'm not impressed really seriously that's that's chairman that's what CEO looks like so it's it's really true when you build your own version of confidence you kind of notice that these titles mean nothing really but you can be a bit of bullet you can sit at a table and have a great conversation but you can also do silly dances with your kids one doesn't negate the other yeah why did why is there just a certain way of portraying yourself because I'm pretty sure that even you know those big CEOs they have silly sides to them as well they have lazy sites to them as well it's impossible for you not you're we're all human at the end of the day I I choose to show that side but that doesn't make me who I am fully you know do you think you need to be at this day and age and influence a human influence on social media like so to speak an influencer to grow a brand or can you grow your brand on its own without putting yourself in the public absolutely absolutely I think that today you don't need to be an influence you don't need to be a person of influence either it's nice if you have a story to tell great but today you have so many platforms that are there to help you we don't know half of the businesses who's behind them you have platforms and you have people to use a lot of people aren't comfortable being in front of the camera or even doing interviews themselves but they are building models behind the scenes where they are utilizing all the platforms to really create reach not just reach but that they're creating something new you know things that that never even existed and they were able to do that through other people so I think it's it's uh absolutely not necessary to be for the person to be known and then great person you know they come and they say oh this is by the way who the founder is of this brand but it's not I don't think it's it doesn't come hand in hand no you don't need to show your personal life in order for you to kind I don't think so grow even on social you would think no I agree I would I mean because I like social media and I love to connect with people and I love to be in front of the camera so I'm this is something I'm super comfortable with so I would tell someone like why don't you just Market yourself as well you know but it's not for everyone and it's not necessary either I would just think it's nice because I'd be like oh my God if I can tell the story of that person's success I would so want to be there on that plot you know what I mean but this is my experience of it it's not everyone who likes it I mean even boots I think he doesn't he's not a huge like he is Lucha when I for him and even like throughout the time I realized Lucha is a very successful person but Luke never spoke about his accomplishments Lucha doesn't have much articles on him because he's not that kind of guy he's not a flaunty kind of guy I am I'm like I did something look what I did you know it's just it's characters it's maybe a little insecurity even from my side which he is a lot more comfortable with and he's just you know good with himself he doesn't need any sort of exterior validation I do so it's just you know different and I told him I can't believe that you don't have a lot of articles on you why don't you push for interviews and he just doesn't see the benefits in it necessarily I think I don't know Stone doesn't doesn't like appeal to me it happens but I mean I'm not the guy who wants to show everyone uh even I think you're very modest in your approach to life I think that even in when I first met him and I mean the banking world was very new to me I was living in Lebanon you know I really have those big corporations or Finance you know organizations in Lebanon so my Entourage was not in in that scene and then I moved to London and then obviously there you meet a lot of bankers and then when I would tell them let's say that you know my boyfriend is back really he's doing so well at HSBC and I'm like this guy doesn't talk to me the way people talk about him you know so I think it's uh it's a real it's true I don't even talk about myself by the way I am yeah I am a big shot in the finals you're welcome but even your modest in your lifestyle like he's not a lavish lifestyle kind of guy at all and I think I'm not either I mean compared to I think our maybe peers in the in the industry or we don't ever really feel that that anything exterior will reflect on who we truly are you know I think this is just a little bit from both of our upbringing as well we're both very kind of yeah can I just don't interrupt like of the what time is your oh it's not insane what time is your stinky 1 30

uh 1 30 okay because it's one already yeah it's oh sorry it's 12 okay 1 30 is your thingy you may see what I mean about how he's like always there with the Karen you have this now because he knows I could forget yeah I do so I know I put things in your calendar and then you miss it entirely um so I want to kind of understand how you got to the place provided the fact that you you mentioned you don't have a business background you don't have your corporate background right so how did you build the confidence to play your moves because you play them well and how do you deal with certain fears how did you build that confidence where did it come from uh first maybe it's worth noting that I have my masters in Psychotherapy and I did therapy for two years and uh it was a super super helpful exercise even though I don't practice it today like technically but I do practice it a lot on myself because especially the field that I am in is breaks your confidence whether you like it or not no matter how confident you start off something will come along the way where they'll make you feel like you're not good enough whether it's something as simple as where you're seated than during Fashion Week or how you're treated and at events like oh you're not relevant right now look at this person she's more famous than you and we're going to give that person the more attention or the way other people see you uh she's worth my time she's not worth my time and you can really really see it very clearly and and it hurts and it takes a lot of growth for you to say you know what it is part of this industry it has nothing to do with who I am as a person I'm self-coaching yeah and exactly so Pros that was that's process you know that is inevitable in any person anyone who thinks you know right now they're having their moment amazing there will come a time where that moment will drop where you will lose confidence where you will question yourself well you will question your position and and your purpose and this is something that I constantly go through the more you go actually it doesn't get less it actually gets more because in the beginning you're so happy with everything oh my God I'm invited to Fashion Week this is awesome I don't care where they see me then it's like okay I'm there but why don't they care that I'm there and then it's you know so they seated me first row why am I second row this time so you have all of that that kind of comes with it which is probably silly to other people but you know for that this is but this is in your world because it's very relevant to people in the corporate world as well but they just Benchmark it against their Entourage right meeting they were taken to a certain events for in the corporate world but then they weren't positive they weren't promoted or they weren't you know somebody else was promoted ahead of them so it's relevant it's the same absolutely but what is harder is that it's public so you get people's opinions when you know they it's from the outside and it's easy to compare there are numbers in the in any other business people don't really know the numbers and ours numbers are public so it is a bit more out there if you want so my confidence actually comes a lot from you so thank you my friend you honestly how many times do I call you feeling so insecure even if it's about the way I look and I tell you trace so many people are calling me fat am I fat I need your help so I think the good thing is that when you're feeling at a time where you are low do what it and it's affecting you so if you're at a time where you're you're feeling in a time where you feel low dwelling on that isn't going to take you anywhere taking the steps you need to take to get yourself out of there is what will make the difference and which is why for example when my weight or the way I looked got to me I called you I told you trace you know it's not just about what I look like physically I feel lazy I feel like a bum I'm sitting at home watching that hour pass when I say I don't have time to work out but in fact I just stayed and looked at my phone I could have worked out in that time and I needed to surround myself with people like you who'd be like Karen you can do this everyone will find the time you will find the time and don't feel guilty about taking that time off you need that time for you to do whatever it takes to better yourself so I think surrounding yourself with the right people is super important that will tell you the things that you need not just that you need to hear that will better you this is one and and remind you of your worth because the people that know you know that you're worthy so they will remind you of your worth the second thing is learning to ignore the things that are not useful for you so you will get exposed to a lot of comments not just physically comments but noise you you need to know how to take in the noise that is important for your growth and ignore the noise that is just there to put you down because that exists so this is something super important also in in gaining confidence and also I have to say my growth today I say that you know what I reached where I am today I am worth what I what I've done I am a successful person I want to say I'm an entrepreneur because I do see what I have built I would love to say that I'm an entrepreneur who's going to tell me no you're not yes you are you don't fit you know I feel it I know what I'm putting in so that growth as well has helped me in building that confidence so um it's it's a bunch of everything but again this is much easier said than actually yeah practice so it is that's where the therapy comes in I do a lot of self-talk self-reflection where am I today where do I want to reach we do a lot of strategy together maybe when we first started there was no strategy it was kind of like things are coming our way oh this is fun this is exciting I'm so happy look at this you know but now it's like Oh wait we're somewhere today do we want to stay where we are no we want to grow what are the right steps that we need to take to grow what should we decline that might look super exciting from the outside but if we take that on we won't be able to get to that so what should we reject and feel confident about rejecting to be able to take on another project that will be more in line with our goals you know so tell me a bit more about that in terms of like time management strategy um what does it look like because you also have a family of three kids and you have work and you have travel and you have to post and be online and be present and how much of your roles are split and what does your time management look like I think when I left the corporate world I was more flexible so I think the biggest asset you have in your life is your time and I realized that after I left the corporate world so when I was in the corporate world I used to like be at the job at like 8 30 leave a like six work straight on my desk lunch breaks would be on my desk but when I left I felt that I can manage my time much better and because Karen travels a lot so now it's easier for me to step in and take on some responsibilities for example with the kids responsibilities let's say for the house responsibilities with with anything which is which is pending I can step in which would also allow her to travel more and to probably execute the strategy or game plan which previously maybe we wouldn't be able to because I wouldn't be as available so that's I think one thing which was important is when when I left we were able to be much more flexible on our timing but also I have to say Luke that you know you're saying this like it's something so direct and simple but it's not everyone who does that as well so you are an excellent father you spend a lot of time with the children honestly so true that's true I started just saying this to Al yesterday after we came back from your kid's birthday I'm like one of the people that I admire so much as a parent aside from everything you do with work luge and you're just an amazing dad like you're so present so involved and not not because he has to but because he just wants to be around yeah when his kids are growing up he wants to watch and be a part of it like the way he monitors them I just I really appreciate that I know and not just that even with the house you know like he's a lot more Hands-On on the house than I am and maybe this is more of a role expected from the woman you know I think that comes also from my organization much more structure than her and that so I know how to get things done quickly yeah and not pan yeah I kind of procrastinate more let's say I know that whatever we have to order stuff for the house for example I'd be like I'll just do it later which would be like oh we have to order stuff for the house you know so yeah he gets stuff done much much faster so um another another um kind of thing I want you to think about a little bit is what sort of influence do you think or you have on your following or hope to have if you still haven't reached that what what is your influence on the younger generation or even adults like people around you in a very idea idealistic world I would like to be the person that I didn't that I could didn't find to look up to when I was younger so I am when I was a younger you know girl and whatever whether it was at University or whatever it was the people that I looked up to were very very very different to me and the way they looked and how they deleted their lives where they lived so they felt very very far away from me and it was a little bit unfair not to find those role I mean I could tell you my mom was my role model but then again that's my mom it wasn't someone that I looked at and said this is you know looks if she can do it I can do it you know and I want to be that person so for example I always thought and we used to have these conversations a lot when I have children I will not have a career because you can't because this is what we only see around us you very rarely saw women from our region that excelled at what they were doing and were also moms that wasn't I mean maybe globally that wasn't also promoted so often but especially in our region so when I saw with time that actually you can you don't have to choose between one or one or the other you can do both I wanted to highlight that to my younger audience and be like you don't have to choose you can have both yes you something's got to give so maybe you're social a lot you're gonna have to take time away from your social life you will have to delegate more than you thought you could so there are stuff that you will miss out on inevitably but you don't have to make a choice you know you will be able with time to realize what's more important what are your priorities are and that's only if you truly want it some people aren't don't don't really care to work it's not part of their calling for me it was I always knew that I wanted to work but did I know that I was as ambitious as I am today no I thought I would settle maybe for some job but I didn't know that I would want to be do more and more and not settle like I don't I feel sometimes some I need to hear from people to tell me like you're doing amazing because I'm constantly feeling like I'm not doing enough I need to do more you know so they say they say that you uh kind of should follow the footsteps of someone who's done it before you in order for you to reach certain Heights it's best to follow someone who's failed and done it and then follow the the successes who do you look at both of you if you're kind of thinking of a long-term trajectory of where you want to be whose footsteps do you think match your vision I do you have someone in mind I've never like thought about it but I thought about it I have someone and it's nice because she happens to be a friend so akiara ferrani who is a friend of mine and in fact the fact that I know her makes this all so much nicer because she is truly what she portrays herself to be so sometimes you find people on social media but then when you meet them you're disappointed and you're like oh she's you know I liked her but then when I met her it wasn't the case but with her it's actually the opposite she proved to be exactly who she shows herself to be but it's not just that it's I think that she has a great management of I relate to her because she has a family and also has a business and I feel that she takes the right steps in her growth and not maybe the right steps for her but I relate to these steps so I love the fact that I have someone like her who's kind of Paving the way and showing me how much of a long path I still have to take you know so she inspires me for sure and uh do you feel like there's more like a book or like a strategy that you kind of follow maybe more so in your case not a person but is there something that kind of stuck where you're like you know what that's right this is how it's done and I'm kind of always reverting back to that in my mind you know what you know everyone says follow your passion uh and you'll be successful you know I do believe in that but I also believe in that it doesn't always end up in a positive way I mean Follow Your Passion but make sure that it's kind of like a dreamy quote you know like Follow Your Passion so I always think to myself is that make sure you always have let's say a backup a backup plan so follow your passion and have a corporate job don't quit your corporate job until your passion starts getting you income there's a difference in it a lot of people are like oh I want to quit and follow my passion no don't if it doesn't make you money because it's not your day job Finance your passion and once you know that your passion is actually getting you some income and it's growing and you feel that you know what this is really what I want to do then take the jump so I I read a lot of like inspirational quotes I read a lot of stuff like that and I do take snit bits from some of them and I try to apply them because I do resonate to them so when I left my corporate my corporate job I was senior I had three kids uh living in Dubai also isn't as as pricey so I took a risk but it was a calculated risk which I've been planning for three years so I don't feel that that you should just get to jump the gun without having something you're right about that with the passion thing because it you know know a lot of people say Follow Your Passion but sometimes your passion is your passion and people don't care about it so you won't be able to monetize from it and that should be okay for you to kind of test it to see is this something that people want and if they don't then maybe not hold on to it too tight and move on to the next one I know that you tried to shift this you wanted to do a candle line if I'm not mistaken so you've also been there where you kind of tried something and it didn't work and tried another and it didn't work and it's not necessarily I like candles so I'm gonna sell candles and it's gonna work and a lot of people don't give themselves the time to really know what their their passion is so again there's like a quote right so I like to read a lot of quotes there's a quote says you have no problem working a nine-to-five job for someone else but you won't give a couple of hours a day to work on yourself that's true you know so if you're working nine to five for somebody else and they're getting all the money they're getting all the benefits you can't J you can't give yourself two hours a day to really let's say maybe you already identified your passion and try to grow that passion into something then that kind of is on you not on anyone else you know you have the time to to grow it's the way you manage it when you're also asking me about like purpose and and when I was what I tried to highlight with my platform I also think that I tried to show when I show the family kind of side to it um I I really like to highlight loot in it because I think yes we have a problem with stereotyping women but we also have a very big problem with stereotyping men and the rolled up men so I make it a point to show for example loot's cooking at home I make it a point to show how supportive he is because I would like for example for my daughters to end up also with someone who supports them because without his support I wouldn't have been able to do like he's saying I would have been able to do half of the stuff that I do today so I think it's important to kind of reflect on all those little things that I personally feel or benefit have been beneficial to me and kind of put that out there as well so I think my purpose is a little bit highlighting like I said the positive stuff that I that I have within me that I feel make me a better person and put that out there to show that it exists so with you know it's always what comes first the chicken or the egg now we talk about this a lot how a lot of the younger generation want to be famous before they want to have a talent and you see this with our children it's kind of a fear that you have as well right where you're where you're kind of projecting to everybody like I'm famous right you're on Instagram you have a following but how do you kind of influence people to have a talent or a business and then figure out a way to be famous because of it instead of having it the other way around so my question is more towards how would you like to be remembered as people and how what kind of influence would you like to leave behind as part of your Fame it's a big one take your time yeah no I I don't want to sound cheesy but I also think that kindness is a very big thing I um before anything I wouldn't you know people famous people come and go and fame comes and goes within the life of you know anyone the ones that are remembered are the ones that have used what they you know any platform that they build whether it's not just famous people whoever it is to be to to highlight and to show kindness to others whether it's through giving time from yourself to others whether it's you know just to add positive kind of value and today I feel that kindness is kind of under looked at you don't Focus so much on it you kind of have for example The Devil Wears Prada the vote I mean again I'm talking in in my in my industry but it's kind of the the boss the CEO yeah you kind of have who's exactly you have there's almost some sort of like um like it's almost like a correlation that success comes with being um full of yourself being arrogant uh walking in a room and everyone has to freeze and I think of myself as the complete opposite of this I want to walk into a room and have everyone smiling I wanted people to remember that you know what this girl built stuff grew became famous but has remained to be a kind person throughout it all and this is hard to see today you know and I really hope that this can stay within me and it not that I always even when I pray at night I pray that it doesn't Fame doesn't I don't want fame to get to my head because I think this is when someone starts to lose what about you what do you want to be remembered for I think I want to be remembered as someone who who gives others a chance to maybe take risks you know I think there's such a taboo especially in the in the in the Arab world whereby you either have to have like let's say a steady job like a lawyer a doctor an engineer uh and especially when you're when you're dealing with your parents they're like yeah no no no don't don't do that just no now's not the right time I Know No One's Gonna Know us the right time except yourself you know when you feel you're ready do do what do what you feel is ready but my is is always give it time before you react which a lot of people nowadays don't do a lot of like like you said the young kids now everyone wants to succeed but knows to put the time to succeed just because I think social media amplifies everything whereby it makes it seem like it's easy like someone did this oh cryptocurrency yeah my friend invested uh five thousand dollars and now he has a million and everyone thinks it's the same but no one knows that it takes a lot of gut takes a lot of patience a lot of learning research learning even my kids like my kids think that like yeah I already know I'm like dude you're seven years old what do you know the same I think I I I'm I'm concerned a little bit and so and I would really like to think that it's not because of us kind of being in the public eye that my children talk about you know being famous because I kind of see it across their Generations all the kids like the statistic like I think what more than like 50 of uh of uh the young kids want to be YouTubers or or influencers or they even care about what their Avatar looks like more than what this 70 of people care more what the Avatar looks like than what they look like they really look like so I'm 100 sure that this is a kind of a a common thing across you know a majority I would say of of young children but I would absolutely not want that to be a goal for them so I always every time they tell me I want to be famous I say that's great you know being you know famous could be a nice thing if this is what you want but you can be famous for what I'm constantly trying to put that in them because Fame does not come just like that you need to be famous for something and then you can also be famous for something that's not good you know you Fame is not famous being known famous both ways yeah you know I think it's evolving also like she was talking about uh um she was talking about like men cooking but like now you see more and more men cook you see more and more men in the kitchen because I don't know like I love my my my food so Karen doesn't know how to cook as well so I don't know if that that helped you're welcome I don't know if that helps he's so good but I think you see more chefs globally are are men and I think in the region you see more more men who like to cook and also taking care of kids I think who doesn't want to see their kids grow up you know what I mean I love that I love that how I mean that's that's it you're doing it because you care to be around because this is not my job it's not your job to be around for your kids how is that possible it's not around it's not your job too and we didn't really see that growing up exactly exactly you could count on one like at least from for example from my friends or myself I could count on one hand the fathers that I truly saw involved in their children's lives you know yeah I think this is this has definitely changed you know one thing I liked about this discussion with you guys is Karen I mean a lesson from both of you Karen how you used a lot of your your skill set and the things you kind of picked up here and there from your degree and from your personality to figure out how you could use those and create a business that works and Lucci did the same one is your passion to be able to help others to kind of feel like they can do it so ke Partners is kind of that right and it has all of the knowledge and the skills in the background that you used in corporate so for anyone who thinks that yeah but this is not my life or this is not my role or I I'm stuck into this box not necessarily just figure out I did a creative way how to kind of use your skill sets yeah to think of yourself give yourself the time give yourself the time you know even we almost feel like we're in a race you know that everyone wants everything now that's not how it works yeah I mean we're all in our 30s and the 30s 40s and this is where we are and we're still figuring things out right so anyone who's 20 and 25 that says that I haven't figured my life out yeah relax okay guys thanks this is actually so good honestly and I love that I get therapeutic yeah exactly and it's self-reflective as well you know sometimes you don't ask yourself these questions so being asked makes you think about it so that's awesome thanks for sharing you know what I love actually that even though you know us so well I mean Tracy is my first ever friend and she has been through every single step of my life with me ups and the downs I think it's so beautiful that we still kind of today discover new things about ourselves like I think even in this discussion now I learned a lot yeah a hundred percent that's great honestly nice guys thank you for the time thank you and thank you for being around for people to learn from you it's super helpful we love you love you guys